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Nov 27
2007

Is My Turkey Orthodox?

Posted by Nicholas Chancy in Orthodox EvangelismMarketingAmerican Culture

Nicholas Chancy

A few years back I was attending a Greek Orthodox parish. At coffee hour one Sunday, I asked a recently Chrismated couple how their Thanksgiving had been the week before.

"It was good," the husband said, "But it was hard eating vegetarian when my family was having turkey."

I laughed, because I'd just spent Thanksgiving at the home of an Orthodox priest with a big, fat turkey in the deep fryer.

They asked me why I was laughing, so I explained to them that Orthodox Christians in the Greek Archdiocese get Thanksgiving off every year from the Advent Fast.

"But," the wife spluttered, "It was on the calendar! We even checked the Website!"

Nothing underscores the disconnect between Orthodoxy and American culture quite like Thanksgiving. As this story illustrates, the liturgical calendars printed by Orthodox jurisdictions in the United States color Thanksgiving as a fasting day.

Yet, the idea of fasting on the national Feast Day of the United States is simply unimaginable. So we don't. Except for recent converts or catechumens who don't know any better than to take the liturgical calendar at face value.

We are, after all, Americans and Thanksgiving is an integral part of our national heritage.

So almost all of us Orthodox Christians ignore the calendar and cook up a major helping of turkey and ham with all the trimmings. In fact, at least in the jurisdictions I've been associated with, we're given official sanction to ignore the calendar on that day. Ironically, the hierarchs telling us to ignore the calendar are, in fact, the same people in charge of its printing and distribution in the first place.

But, what message are we sending when we do this?

Is the fourth Thursday of November a fasting day, or not? If it is in Orthodox tradition, but not in American Orthodox tradition - then why shade the day at all?

In the business world, this is called mixed messaging. You are telling two different stories at once, and the result is confusion of your identity in the marketplace.

Our mixed message on Thanksgiving makes Orthodoxy in the U.S. seem provisional, as if we haven't quite worked out what it means to be Orthodox and American at the same time.

The fact that this disconnect is so visible makes things problematic for evangelism. I've been asked about this situation before by those considering the Orthodox faith, and there is no real answer to give them. The Orthodox Church in the United States just sort of makes an exception to the Orthodox fasting rule. But if the same exception is made every single year, why keep coding the day on the calendar as a fast day?

Americans don't like this kind of ambiguity. Americans like certainty. The situation with Thanksgiving is the sort of thing that drives us nuts.

That uncertainty makes us feel like we should be doing something to clear up the situation. For example, are we supposed to be lobbying to change the date of Thanksgiving so that it does not interfere with the Christmas Fast?

I'm being serious here. Many of us who try to spread the Orthodox message, both online and offline, are at least partially motivated by the vision of an Orthodox America - an America in which the Orthodox Church is the dominant religious influence. If Thanksgiving in its current slot on the calendar is unacceptable, then should part of our long-term goal as Orthodox proponents in the United States be to change the date of Thanksgiving?

Or, given the unique cultural heritage of this nation, is Thanksgiving in late November acceptable, even though it falls within the Christmas Fast? After all, various proclamations have fixed days of Thanksgiving in late November since the 17th Century. That may be yesterday to the mind of the Orthodox Church, but for a nation as young as America this is the closest thing we have to an ancient tradition.

Does this really matter? There are much bigger problems in the world than whether or not our turkey on Thanksgiving is Orthodox. But, things which cloud our message to the American public are harmful to the spread of Orthodoxy. The fact that Orthodoxy is officially confused or ambigious in its relationship to America's national feast day certainly doesn't help us win any converts to the true faith.

This Thanksgiving problem is really a symptom of a larger concern. Orthodoxy needs to get its arms around American culture and sort the wheat from the chaff. That which is good and noble should be Chrismated and preserved, just as was done with countless other cultures in times past. That which is irredeemable should be replaced with that which is holy. The result will be a distinct American Orthodoxy which will take its place globally alongside the Orthodox cultures of other nations.

Many things going under the rubric of American culture aren't worthy of preservation, of course, but is our national day of prayer and thanksgiving one of them?

Glen Chancy is CIO for corfun.com and publisher of Orthodox Biz. You can contact him here .





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Comments (9)Add Comment
Feasting on Thanksgiving
written by Di, November 29, 2007
Thanksgiving is the single American holiday on which we all, priests and parishioners, break a fast for good reason, to celebrate gratitude to our Creator for an abundance of food grown in a free country and shared generously with friends and family.
Our Orthodox calendars should reflect this tradition by noting the day as fast-free.
...
written by Angel Athena Tzouras Brock, December 11, 2007
Yes, this has been a source of confusion for as long as I can remember! And I agree we should make an exception in America. Plus when you go to someone else's house (I invariably do) it is good to be a gracious and thankful guest - not to "pig out" but to share in the spirit of the holiday (holy day?)
My Godparents had a restaurant where ham was the predominant item on the menu. I remember going to their home on Thanksgiving and my Godfather would say there was turkey, but also a little ham on the side as that is where the turkey came from! LOL
...
written by Bob, December 17, 2007
Only Orthodox who are second,third or fourth generation will have turkey during the fast. The Orthodox immigrants don't care about turkey. For them means nothing compare to what the Christmas Fast means.
Why not revert to the original Orthodox Calendar?
written by Gregory, December 17, 2007
In the Russian Orthodox Church we encouter NO problem with Thanksgiving, given the fact that we adhere to the original Orthodox Calendar, i.e., the Julian Calendar. I know, I know -- we want to be relevant to the society so we "should" use the Gregorian calendar -- or some such argument. But, what about all of the really strong arguments against using the Gregorian calendar? Shouldn't we be united, as Orthodox, in using the same calendar? And, since the Church was using the Julian long, long before using the Gregorian (i.e., the calendar of the RCC), shouldn't we all use it? It just seems to be to be a better choice. And, if we all do use it, we won't have any more discussions about Thanksgiving falling on a fast day!
Concerning Immigrants and Turkey
written by Glen Chancy, December 17, 2007
That may be true, of course, that immigrant families who do not have the tradition of Thanksgiving will keep the fast rather than join in the American feast day. They are less likely to have non-Orthodox family, after all.

But, then again, immigrants give birth to first, second, and eventually third generation Orthodox babies. Don't they? So even if Orthodox immigrants exist, walled off in ethnic enclaves, their children who inter-marry quickly move off the reservation.

And then they come face-to-face with the great Turkey question.

Sooner or later, as an Orthodox community, we just have to deal with this.
Changing calendar
written by Glen Chancy, December 17, 2007
To be honest, I'm not sure why we in the U.S. ended up with the Gregorian calendar. The solution of adopting the Julian calendar may be a good idea. My major point is about consistency, and adopting the original calendar will probably foster that. Since, after all, we calculate Easter the old method, perhaps the old calendar would be the best way to go.
A common calendar for all Orthodox Christians
written by Dianne Tzouras, December 20, 2007
It is my fervent prayer that all Orthodox Christians will again use a common calendar. What a simple way to bring us closer together in the faith.
Fasting Is Only One Means To An End
written by Ted Bosen, January 18, 2008
As my priest explains this apparent dilemma between Thanksgiving and the Advent Fast, he draws our attention to Christ's message:
Fasting is between you and God, not a social phenomenon, and itsw only purpose is to till the soil for the planting of seed. It is useless in and of itself without prayer and almsgiving.
Thanksgiving, meanwhile, is all about prayer and almsgiving. Nothing shows one's "thanks" to God more than giving to and feeding others.
When Christ performed healing miracles on the Sabbath, the Sadducees condemned him for not following the law. He set them, and us, straight by pointing out that Our Father in Heaven does not turn away His love on the Sabbath and that the law is not an end in itself, but a means to that end. Therefore, we Orthodox Christians are called upon to imitate Christ and demonstrate that rigid adherance to "the law of fasting," which would lead us in America to ignore communal prayer and almsgiving at Thaksgiving time, would blind us to those ends for which the means of fasting is intended.
The same justification holds true for when one's name day falls on the fast. For that person, and those who celebrate him, that is a Feast Day! That has been the tradition in my Orthodox family and community through the generations. It, therefore, must be the teaching of the Church as well. We, therefore, do eat Turkey on Thanksgiving with the blessing of our parish priest. We share food and plenty, along with prayer and alms, with those we love and with those who are in need. It feels very Orthodox to do so. Then in the following days, we try to get back to our fast. It is then for our Father in heaven to be the judge of our hearts in this regard.
Turkey or Not
written by Isaac, February 15, 2010
I'm now on the O.C. again but for three years in an OCA parish I had to face this issue. I think a dispensation for Thanksgiving might be ok-- The Greeks seem to have one for their national holiday during Great Lent: Annunciation (which is also their Independence Day). However, like someone else has said, we should not turn this into an excuse to over-indulge, or to ignore the fast for an entire week while leftovers are in the fridge. The leftover problem can go away if we really try to celebrate it together with fellow Orthodox. Maybe also an Orthodox response would be to limit the meats to Turkey itself-- this being the "traditional" way to do the American feast, and trying not to make too much.

Perhaps we should only allow ourselves the dispensation if we find some way to truly pray for others and to give alms out of true Thanksgiving.

Or perhaps it would be best to do an Advent Thanksgiving, where possible, having fish, shrimp, crab, clams, etc. These are usually ok for Advent (fish is eaten more often, usually) and we are still attempting to obey the Church's fasting/feasting cycles.

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